Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Discuss anything related to Shop Heroes gameplay.
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Shiroe
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Shiroe » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:54 am

Well, database -> autogenerated info pages would be very nice and because of the lack of editors could work better.
It just isn't a wiki or works with the wiki concept of everybody being able edit it... (if an edit would conflict with the database info, which would be leading?)
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

akkordovich
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby akkordovich » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:10 am

Shiroe wrote:It just isn't a wiki or works with the wiki concept of everybody being able edit it... (if an edit would conflict with the database info, which would be leading?)


IMHO, there should be 2 parts of Wiki:
1) Based on Cloudcade game database - non-editable, only automatically generated (blueprints, heroes, precrafts, etc), because no one can know this better, than creator ;) )
2) Knowledge base - editable - FAQs, Walkthroughs, Player's advices and many more, generated both from Cloudcade and Players.

In this case we can save non-conflict atmosphere.

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Retaeiyu
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Retaeiyu » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:30 am

So what's the plan, man?

Should I start creating on the new wiki or revamp the old one? If I'm gonna revamp the old one, I'm going to make it more simple and less bloated.

Or are we doing something else?
Retaeiyu#50373

akkordovich
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby akkordovich » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:35 pm

I think we need to wait for cloudcade answer because there can be duplicate jobs.
Anyway, I've searched wikia.com site for API but they don't provide page creation api, just read-only, so if we want to make auto-generated pages we need another source. Now I'm testing MediaWiki script (Wikipedia based on this) on my domain to create autogenerated multilanguage pages based on Richard's datasheet.

Sillvestra
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Sillvestra » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:07 pm

Those mobile adds are EXACTLY why I gave up ever using the Wiki and just stuck to Richard's spreadsheet (never had a problem on my Note3).

Wish I could offer programming/editing support but unfortunately don't have the knowledge or the time to learn (2 toddlers demanding constant attention)...

Good luck on the new Wiki. I'll definitely give it a look when it's up and running :)
Mayor of Elysìum (rank 191 Nw)
Lvl 51, 122.1G Nw, 451/559 BPs mastered.
All wood/leather/iron BPs.
17/36 Gold. 3/44 Primal.
0 Magic/Dwarven.

09-05-2017

Cloudcade
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Cloudcade » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:39 pm

akkordovich wrote:
Shiroe wrote:It just isn't a wiki or works with the wiki concept of everybody being able edit it... (if an edit would conflict with the database info, which would be leading?)


IMHO, there should be 2 parts of Wiki:
1) Based on Cloudcade game database - non-editable, only automatically generated (blueprints, heroes, precrafts, etc), because no one can know this better, than creator ;) )
2) Knowledge base - editable - FAQs, Walkthroughs, Player's advices and many more, generated both from Cloudcade and Players.

In this case we can save non-conflict atmosphere.


The template you have created in Russian looks great. Multi-language support is definitely something we want given that Shop Heroes has become and will increasingly become a global game. With something like this hosted externally, you will have to enlist all the help and support you can get from the community. Of course, we would be more than happy to support these efforts in any way we can.

Retaeiyu wrote:So what's the plan, man?

Should I start creating on the new wiki or revamp the old one? If I'm gonna revamp the old one, I'm going to make it more simple and less bloated.

Or are we doing something else?


I think revamping the existing Wiki is the simplest approach. However, I will leave it to all of you in the community to chime in to see how you want to see the Wikis hosted/managed/revamped. I think that the fact that a handful of you have already answered the call and are actively engaged in making this happen for the players already speaks volume in what the end result will become. Again, our sincerest gratitude to all of you who are actively contributing to these efforts, we will be sure to do something special for all of you in the near future.

akkordovich
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby akkordovich » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:06 am

Cloudcade wrote:Of course, we would be more than happy to support these efforts in any way we can.


Cloudcade, the main thing, as described other users before - we do not have properly information in readable format. We should not decompile your app to get needed images, texts or smth else. Best what you can do - provide resources (texts, images, open formulas etc) in common way.
P.S. Answer to my pm please.

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Shiroe
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Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Shiroe » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:08 am

akkordovich wrote:Anyway, I've searched wikia.com site for API but they don't provide page creation api, just read-only, so if we want to make auto-generated pages we need another source. Now I'm testing MediaWiki script (Wikipedia based on this) on my domain to create autogenerated multilanguage pages based on Richard's datasheet.

I still think you're trying to hammer a square peg (info site) into a round hole (wiki).
The only thing a "bot" could be used for would be for creating and filling nonexisting pages. Non-interactive overwriting of existing pages would just be a recipe for disaster (edit wars, probably the bot being (IP-)blocked)
spreadsheet/database/csv -> wiki text converting and then manually editing a page from that is of course fine; http://shop-heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Skill ... _and_Items was generated by starting with an ods spreadsheet, saving to .csv , processing that through a shell script and manually copy-pasting the resulting wiki text into that page. (still need to update that one for Heroic package 1 and the 25 new primal blueprints and crosslink it to the skills descriptions page... :| )

For your "auto-genarated multilanguage" stuff, it sounds so much more practical to throw some stuff from Richard's spreadsheet into a database, get the translation files from Cloudcade or extract them from the game files and throw those into a database table too and then write some PHP or something around it to fetch the correct info from the database and display it as a webpage instead of doing that through a wiki, for which the premise is "(nearly) everyone can edit (nearly) everything".



Retaeiyu wrote:So what's the plan, man?

Should I start creating on the new wiki or revamp the old one? If I'm gonna revamp the old one, I'm going to make it more simple and less bloated.

Or are we doing something else?

If we keep the wiki at wikia, we probably really need to look at which templates we have and which we want to keep and which ones to ditch for being too complicated. Templates are great for keeping a wiki maintainable through changes, but if the templates themselves aren't maintainable that's a problem too... ;) ( http://shop-heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Templates I think I made a note of other useful wiki "Special:" links, but no idea where I left it right now and no time to go look for it. :( )
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

akkordovich
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:33 am

Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby akkordovich » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:47 am

Shiroe wrote:I still think you're trying to hammer a square peg (info site) into a round hole (wiki).


Yes, and this is extremely interesting :)

Shiroe wrote:For your "auto-genarated multilanguage" stuff, it sounds so much more practical to throw some stuff from Richard's spreadsheet into a database, get the translation files from Cloudcade or extract them from the game files and throw those into a database table too and then write some PHP or something around it to fetch the correct info from the database and display it as a webpage instead of doing that through a wiki, for which the premise is "(nearly) everyone can edit (nearly) everything".


And yes, i've already done this as you can see on screenshot in my previous post. Richard's datasheet => MySQL db => PHP backend for dynamic content based on db.

But there is another trouble for non-generated pages. For example - description of buildings, heroes, faqs and more other. Of course, we can do it as a static texts on webpages, but! If we want to transform wiki into interlanguage - we need help from another players. I do not think Cloudcade will hire professional interpreters for each language they have in a game. So i think wiki should be because it's a great way for players collaboration on translating. We can use median way - use wiki for collecting data in another language and then will move "ready" data to website.

Cloudcade
Cloudcade Staff
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Re: Shop Heroes Wiki Revamp Project

Postby Cloudcade » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Shiroe wrote:
akkordovich wrote:Anyway, I've searched wikia.com site for API but they don't provide page creation api, just read-only, so if we want to make auto-generated pages we need another source. Now I'm testing MediaWiki script (Wikipedia based on this) on my domain to create autogenerated multilanguage pages based on Richard's datasheet.

I still think you're trying to hammer a square peg (info site) into a round hole (wiki).
The only thing a "bot" could be used for would be for creating and filling nonexisting pages. Non-interactive overwriting of existing pages would just be a recipe for disaster (edit wars, probably the bot being (IP-)blocked)
spreadsheet/database/csv -> wiki text converting and then manually editing a page from that is of course fine; http://shop-heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Skill ... _and_Items was generated by starting with an ods spreadsheet, saving to .csv , processing that through a shell script and manually copy-pasting the resulting wiki text into that page. (still need to update that one for Heroic package 1 and the 25 new primal blueprints and crosslink it to the skills descriptions page... :| )

For your "auto-genarated multilanguage" stuff, it sounds so much more practical to throw some stuff from Richard's spreadsheet into a database, get the translation files from Cloudcade or extract them from the game files and throw those into a database table too and then write some PHP or something around it to fetch the correct info from the database and display it as a webpage instead of doing that through a wiki, for which the premise is "(nearly) everyone can edit (nearly) everything".



Retaeiyu wrote:So what's the plan, man?

Should I start creating on the new wiki or revamp the old one? If I'm gonna revamp the old one, I'm going to make it more simple and less bloated.

Or are we doing something else?

If we keep the wiki at wikia, we probably really need to look at which templates we have and which we want to keep and which ones to ditch for being too complicated. Templates are great for keeping a wiki maintainable through changes, but if the templates themselves aren't maintainable that's a problem too... ;) ( http://shop-heroes.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Templates I think I made a note of other useful wiki "Special:" links, but no idea where I left it right now and no time to go look for it. :( )


All great points made here, if we can leverage the content in the existing spreadsheet to display it in a Wiki-like format with images, that would be the most effective solution.

akkordovich wrote:
Shiroe wrote:I still think you're trying to hammer a square peg (info site) into a round hole (wiki).


Yes, and this is extremely interesting :)

Shiroe wrote:For your "auto-genarated multilanguage" stuff, it sounds so much more practical to throw some stuff from Richard's spreadsheet into a database, get the translation files from Cloudcade or extract them from the game files and throw those into a database table too and then write some PHP or something around it to fetch the correct info from the database and display it as a webpage instead of doing that through a wiki, for which the premise is "(nearly) everyone can edit (nearly) everything".


And yes, i've already done this as you can see on screenshot in my previous post. Richard's datasheet => MySQL db => PHP backend for dynamic content based on db.

But there is another trouble for non-generated pages. For example - description of buildings, heroes, faqs and more other. Of course, we can do it as a static texts on webpages, but! If we want to transform wiki into interlanguage - we need help from another players. I do not think Cloudcade will hire professional interpreters for each language they have in a game. So i think wiki should be because it's a great way for players collaboration on translating. We can use median way - use wiki for collecting data in another language and then will move "ready" data to website.


All of the dozen+ languages that we currently support within the game have been professionally translated, with a handful of those languages having gone through thorough localization where the resources were available. But if you are referring to strings/texts not currently in the game, we can perhaps figure out a way to format and translate accordingly using the same resources we have for in-game strings.


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