Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

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Abqu
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Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Abqu » Mon May 02, 2016 9:18 pm

1 Year Edit: I love this thread, but I needed to fix some broken gifs, so I thought I'd mention:
- Yes, these concepts still work today.
- I haven't broken a piece of equipment since writing this guide, and long before.
- 5% break chance (or under) + 7 points of Support in a party = no breaks

I'd like to keep the original mostly untouched, but thanks for all the support! Let me know if you've got questions or need clarification, there are so many great people in Shop Heroes who want to help.

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Alright. Hi. It's me, Abqu, your resident .... person.

The goal of this guide is to provide a quasi-comprehensive look at how to build more efficient quest and raid teams. Building teams and giving advice is a passion project of mine, and so I thought I'd take an hour and try to break it down.

First off, we need to start with Team Building 101, the most pervasive strategy and how to identify gear effectively.

Gearing with Full Unbreakables
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Ah, the favorite phrase of world chat -- unbreakable. It's a great strategy, one I employed for some time. There are upsides, and downsides to this path. Upsides include having full confidence that gear will never break, and a "set and forget" mentality to gearsets. Downsides are that it is not "future-proof", meaning that if/when level caps go up again, some gear will become obsolete or unusable. Another downside, which we'll get to later, is that it is not as efficient for raid and quest outputs as it can be.

Identifying items for this strategy can seem a little daunting, but there is an amazing website out there that does all the work for us: AppGoons.

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You select your hero, you input their level, and push the magic button, and BAM, instant results, by item quality. It's outrageous, truly truly outrageous.


Taking the Next Step: Building Your First Efficient Team
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Already we're stepping into controversial territory. Why, just a few days ago I was called an puppy for even suggesting there was an alternative to unbreakable gearing strategies. Now, I totally agree that I'm an puppy, just not on this. And I'm obviously biased, I mean, it's the title of my topic after all.

Building the first team is really quite easy to do. You really don't need chest blueprints, but they help quite a great deal. First, let's outline the team composition and the base skills these ladies bring.

- Alicia L30+ in the leader spot. Amazon III, and Energetic III.
- Odette L24+. Support II.
- Azula L20+. Healer III. (inconsistent data on what level healer III unlocks)
- Louca L35+. Support III.
- Oniera L24+. Support II, Healer II.

I guess I should talk about what each of the skills do, plus some other important ones for later.
- Amazon: Increases female party survival rate, aka base power plus equipment power. Brothers-in-Arms is the male equivalent.
- Energetic: Reduces individual resting time after a quest. Will not work if the hero gets injured.
- Support: Prevents a piece of equipment from breaking, including the hero with this skill.
- Healer: Reduces healing time of the entire party. Works if a hero gets injured. Total party caps at 90% healer.
- Leader: Increases party size by 1.
- Resourceful: Prevents a piece of own equipment breaking, not party-wide.
- Speed Runner: Reduces quest time.
- Protector: Increases party survival rate.

So, in this comp, we have 75% healer and 7 supports. That means after every quest, the resting time of the entire party will be reduced by a huge, huge margin. The 7 points of support, however, are key. I'm no mathematician, so I can't really give you the odds. What I can say is that if you equip every single person in this party with an item that has a 5% chance or lower to break, your gear will be safe.

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So now we've got the bare bones, ultra basic first team setup. Let's flesh it out a little.

Blueprints you'll need:
- Lion's Boots, Leader I, Leather Chest (absolutely essential, get this BP yesterday)
- Falcon Eye, Energetic I, Wooden Chest
- Colored Powder, Energetic I, Wooden Chest
- Moon Walkers, Energetic I, Leather Chest

That's it. Four chests. Wooden. Leather. Awesome. So now you've got your Lion's Boots placed firmly on Alicia's footsies, meaning we can add a sixth to the party. Here's the full comp:

- Alicia, Lion's Boots
- Odette, Moon Walkers, Falcon Eye
- Azula, Moon Walkers, Colored Powder
- Louca, Moon Walkers, Colored Powder
- Oniera, Moon Walkers, Falcon Eye
- Kuro Shobi, Moon Walkers, Falcon Eye

In this bare-bones setup, we have a 75% healer, 100% energetic party using just four chest items. In fact, two of them are the first BP's that show up in Gerrard's list, so you don't really have to open chests for them. With no other gear, you've got 11 items to contend with. Kuro saves her own, so there's just 9 to account for, and you're running seven supports. Again, the odds of breaks are so inconsequential. Plus, if you break one of these, it's not that hard to replace it.

There, you did it, you built your first efficient team!

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Last edited by Abqu on Thu May 11, 2017 10:44 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Abqu » Mon May 02, 2016 9:19 pm

Your Second Team

So now you've got you're first efficient team up and running, and you say to yourself, "Gary, I like this efficient team thing, how do I do more of that?"
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Well, Gary, let's check it out.

Scaling to the next team isn't going to be as easy, primarily because all of the good base skills are all in that first woman's team we created. So we have to rely a little harder on blueprints to make the next team. Because we're all about equal representation, the second team will focus on the fellas.

- Darthos, L30+ in the leader spot. Speed Runner II, Brothers-in-Arms III.
- Albert, L20+. Support I.
- Edward, L34+. Protector III.
- Kurul, L12+. Energetic II.
- Theor, L5+. Energetic I.
- Lancaster L20+. Protector II, Resourceful II.

Thanks to my buddy Jermaya, I was reminded that Plated Tunic makes Darthos viable as an iron-and-below team leader. So I've ninja-edited this section reflect that. If your Albert or Theor are too weak, swap them out for Mojian. Another option is using Clovis instead of Theor/Albert -- his innate Protector will help on Power, but you'll lose some innate abilities in the swap.

Things you're going to need:
- Plated Tunic, Leader, Iron Chest
- Noble Plate, Support I, Iron Chest
- Tiamat, Energetic I, Leather Chest
- Moon Boots, Energetic I, Wooden Chest

And here's the full comp:

- Darthos. Plated Tunic, Moon Boots, Colored Powder.
- Albert. Falcon Eye, Moon Walkers.
- Edward. Noble Plate, Tiamat, Moon Boots.
- Kurul. Noble Plate, Moon Boots.
- Theor. Noble Plate, Moon Boots.
- Lancaster. Noble Plate, Colored Powder, Moon Boots.

With this setup, you've got five supports, 100% energetic. Fifteen breakables, two of which are protected by Lancaster's Resourceful.

Look, it's not as great as Spice Girls up there, I'm not gonna lie, but I hope it shows yall that there are alternatives.

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Ramping Up

Now here's the real tricky part. To get to four fully optimized quest/raid teams, you're going to have to put in a lot of hours. It's not impossible by a long shot, but some effort and forethought will have to take place.

The problem is that in order to get to a safe point to roll out a team, you're going to want to have most of it completed first. Here's a great place to plug some of my favorite things here on the forum. To push out a full comp, you're going to have to know, love, and understand these things.

Richard's Spreadsheet - bookmark it now, love it, live it
Adaman's Guide on Energetic - required reading
Adaman's Guide on Reducing Broken Items - great insights
BobTheBuilder's Guide, "Say goodbye to Item Break" -- further expands on break probability, and provides an AWESOME community resource
Silas' Guide on Using Low Level Items - shameless plug, it's where I first discussed this strategy
bloop's discussion on his current setup - he likes to run energetic, I chose healer

After getting thru these, it's time to figure out which way you want to go, really. When I worked on my master plan, I had a lot of healer BPs, and so that path was the best for me. Others went down the road of Energetic. It's about what you have, and how you can leverage it into something bigger.

Here's my full setup as of right now. I posted it here a month ago, and made a few tweaks to party arrangement since then. Nothing has broken in a couple months, if not more.

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If anyone wants to talk specifics about building teams, I'm on the forums a lot. We can workshop it anytime you want. I'm also on LINE because Claire made me; we can talk there too.

EDIT: After some inquiries, I have decided to put my new, most recent build here. This is going to last me a long time. Obv I'll tweak it here and there, but this is the general idea of what I'm doing as of today.

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Last edited by Abqu on Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:02 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Abqu » Mon May 02, 2016 9:21 pm

Now for the fun part. The Q&A.

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These are random questions I answer in world chat a lot, or just questions I want to answer because I'm arrogant. One or both of those.

Where should I spend my blueprint fragments?

Start in the Warrior's line (far left). Get to Lion's Boots ASAP. You'll get great BPs along the way, but Lion's Booties is the prize. After that, you can continue on to Noble Plate or pick up some others mentioned here.

Is the Giant Pack worth it?

For my gameplay, absolutely. Obviously there are very successful FTP folks out there who are employing this strategy, but Balmungs are just soooo good. They're future proof. I love Balmingos so much, I have one for every single sword user. It's overkill, but meh.

Should I open Chests?

YES A MILLION TIMES YES. Be smart about how you open them, but there are so, so, so many great BPs in wood/leather/iron that will completely change the game for you. There might be better uses for the keys/gems, so you may want to do them first, but opening these chests is a great idea.

Why the obsession with 5% and lower?

As it happens, 5% is the cap on break chances for legendary items. (Mythic is 4%.) So, I figured if I equipped everybody with legendary versions of what I wanted, the break chance would at or below that number.

What is the difference between "survival rate", "strength", and "equipment strength"?

There are a bunch of items out there that augment a hero's power. There are three categories that they fall under.

Equipment strength augments just that -- it increases the power that equipped items provide. See: Parry, Gangster.

Strength is the confusing one -- it augments the base (naked) power of a hero. It does great on T4/5s. Not so great on T1/2s. See: Fireball, Commander.

Survival Rate affects the entire hero, equipment AND base power. It's the superior choice. See: Amazon, Protector.

What items give Support?

Noble Plate (Iron), Winged Sandals (Iron), Adamantium Crossbow (Magic), Balmung (Giant).


Where did I come up with this idea originally?

Bloop put me down the patch in the chat of a WingDingo stream long ago. He was talking about doing sewers for the chance to get blueprints. I think he was trolling, but I took him serious. I grinded a whole week to get a team ready to run sewers. It ended up being just okay, but from that point on it was a matter of scaling up.



Shameless thanking people section:

Thanks to CC and the dev team for the game.
Thanks to Tadaaah for putting up with the crazies.
Thanks to Wing for streaming and unknowingly putting me on this path.
Thanks to Richard and everyone who has worked on the spreadsheet.
Thanks to Silas, Prom, Jerm, and hb for workshopping these ideas with me for weeks and weeks.
Thanks to Speadie, Shiroe and OMGABEAR for contributing to this post.
Thanks to bloop for being bloop.
Thanks to Derek; my one true love. Without you, none of this would be possible.

Abqu OUT.

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Last edited by Abqu on Wed May 04, 2016 10:07 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby bloop » Mon May 02, 2016 9:29 pm

saved 3
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Abqu
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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Abqu » Mon May 02, 2016 10:22 pm

this spot reserved for the pvp section i'll never update

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby bloop » Mon May 02, 2016 11:21 pm

Abqu wrote:He was talking about doing sewers for the chance to get blueprints. I think he was trolling, but I took him serious. I grinded a whole week to get a team ready to run sewers. It ended up being just okay, but from that point on it was a matter of scaling up.


i can never get back the time from failed experiments, but it's always possible to convince others to try the same :D

tbh the rate was pretty good if you managed to get 4 teams of 6 and put in a boatload of effort every 5mins, a lot of people discounted it after sending low hero count parties out while not understanding the old loot mechanic

Abqu wrote:Thanks to Wing for streaming and unknowingly putting me on this path.

kek i got the idea from the same place and then it got laughed off when i tried to discuss it :roll:

Abqu wrote:Thanks to bloop for being bloop.

aw yis

gud guide, it's awesome how much can be achieved with so few recipes. plus you get a bunch of mini goals along the way whenever you get new blueprints or enough items at low enough breakchance to make it viable to pursue new skills.


maybe notable that when you're at the earlier stages of secondary group setups you can throw your heroes with low value/high break chance equipment at the later slots in the group. "let it break" strat paid itself off well enough for me to get things together pretty quick given that the girl group pays for the inn boost and everything after that is profit at an awesome rate of scaling
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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Shiroe » Tue May 03, 2016 1:56 am

Abqu wrote:
- Energetic: Reduces resting time of that one hero after a quest. Will not work if the hero gets injured.
- Healer: Reduces healing time of the whole party. Works if a hero gets injured. Total party caps at 90% healer.

Added clarifications in underline.



I guess I'm a bit risk-averse, so I'm first going with unbreakables on my maxed heroes, so shuffling teams if a hero gets injured doesn't suddenly put items at risk because of fewer support or something like that (do you bench a whole party until the injured hero has recovered?) and nor does it do so if I reform parties to level-grind 1 or more heroes. I'll probably start working on throwing in more skills than just a single Lion Boots once I get to Balmung and a 3rd fusion cauldron.
as of 2016-09-11: Player level: 44, City: Eolythes, Blueprints: 517, Mastered: 419, Crafted: 78.61K
(except for tier 1 and some tier 2 artifacts mostly running my shop/gearing self sufficient)

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby WingDingo » Tue May 03, 2016 5:33 am

bloop wrote:
Abqu wrote:Thanks to Wing for streaming and unknowingly putting me on this path.

kek i got the idea from the same place and then it got laughed off when i tried to discuss it :roll:
Oh man. For like the 100th time. (You =/= Me =/= Other People =/= Can =/= Should). I'm glad something good comes from these streams, sometimes.

There was someone asking in chat either yesterday or today about what the Best In Slot items are. I think I got through to them that saying "whatever you want to do" isn't just me blowing them off. This is another quality guide (though a bit wordy) that I would happily recommend to players. It is similar to the other 1 (or 2) guides similar to this, but features less empty equipment slots.

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Abqu
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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Abqu » Tue May 03, 2016 7:08 am

Shiroe wrote:Added clarifications in underline.


thx, i'll modify the post

Shiroe wrote:do you bench a whole party until the injured hero has recovered?


Once fully parties scaled up, each person brings an element of support to the group at large, so if someone gets injured I keep going and leave the slot empty.

Shiroe wrote:I guess I'm a bit risk-averse, so I'm first going with unbreakables on my maxed heroes


This was my strategy too. I had all heroes 35 and under in complete 0% when my mindset shifted. It's actually a pretty great starting point, because when you flesh out the rest of the team, you'll end up with empty slots, and these items fit perfectly. The two sections are not mutually exclusive, not by a long shot.

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Re: Team Building 102 -- Efficient questing and raiding

Postby Hiws » Tue May 03, 2016 7:09 am

Time to completely copy your build.. :j


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