Extra Mastery!

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Clusterone
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:00 pm

Extra Mastery!

Postby Clusterone » Sat May 27, 2017 4:03 am

Just written up at about 4:00am, so if it sounds a little odd i'm more than happy to explain it better! :)

Mastery ranks.
For 100 made, mastery rank is 1.
For 500, mastery rank is 2.
For 1,000 mastery rank is 3.
Every 1,000 after that raises the rank.

Each mastery rank gives it +10 mastery points added on top of your mastery in general.

For example, if you have 1,300 mastery, and you have made 5,000 ocarina's.
You would have 80 extra mastery points into Ocarina's. All other items have 1,300, but Ocarina's have 1,380. (Number can deviate). Unlimited times ranked. Can do it to any item. Eventually it will make other items worth making. (i.e. the people who make nordic lutes for gems, or other pre-crafts).

Let me know what you think!

River
"Great" Mastery Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:17 am

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby River » Sat May 27, 2017 6:26 am

Clusterone wrote:Just written up at about 4:00am, so if it sounds a little odd i'm more than happy to explain it better! :)

Mastery ranks.
For 100 made, mastery rank is 1.
For 500, mastery rank is 2.
For 1,000 mastery rank is 3.
Every 1,000 after that raises the rank.

Each mastery rank gives it +10 mastery points added on top of your mastery in general.

For example, if you have 1,300 mastery, and you have made 5,000 ocarina's.
You would have 80 extra mastery points into Ocarina's. All other items have 1,300, but Ocarina's have 1,380. (Number can deviate). Unlimited times ranked. Can do it to any item. Eventually it will make other items worth making. (i.e. the people who make nordic lutes for gems, or other pre-crafts).

Let me know what you think!


Now, if you have 1.300 mastery AND ocarina's bp is mastered, your mastery is 1625.
Are you proposing to craft 32.000 ocarina before achieving the same bonus? :shock:

inVoh
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby inVoh » Sat May 27, 2017 8:52 am

I don't like it because it kinda forces you to make 1 item ONLY. We already have that and I believe we need to implement ways of encouraging players to make a variety of items and not just min/max the best one. It will also make it harder for new players to compete in the economy. Say someone has crafted 10k Nordic Lutes and had max mastery, he would guarantee Great+ Nordic Lutes without ever having to fuse them. The price of Nordic Lutes would go down drastically and new players would not be able to enter the market or would have to make their first 5k+ Nordic Lutes at a loss.

Kim!
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby Kim! » Sat May 27, 2017 10:27 am

I'm not liking this either...

1. As voh said, it'd encourage even more grinding and sticking to one item.

2. I think it could be too big of a boost. Like I've crafted 16k+ goddess tears, which would be about 180 mastery? That's almost a 10% increase to my current number. And for shorter craft times it'd be easy to start grinding more mastery, like I could crank out 300+ tears per day if I wanted to - that could be an extra 100 mastery gained per month.

3. It'd put a large gap between short and long crafts, like ocarina players would gain extra much slower than someone working with tears or precrafts. Maybe that's not a bad thing, I dunno. But I bet someone would complain :P

4. It'd make it harder for new players to get on an even playing field. If someone's been crafting the same item every day for months/years they'd be gaining a significant advantage on their favorite craft, and the only way to catch up would be a whole lot of time grinding the same item. Most things right now have tricks to speed up progress (ie, investing in th to speed upgrades, ocarinas or get lucky on chests for piles of gold, power leveling from trade, investing in buildings to power level workers/heroes) but I can't think of any tricks that'd let someone catch up on extra mastery, especially if there's no cap on it.

Say someone has crafted 10k Nordic Lutes and had max mastery, he would guarantee Great+ Nordic Lutes without ever having to fuse them.

I think the point of no more goods is about 4360, that'd probably take closer to 200k nordics. But 10k would still give 4-5% more greats/flawless.

User avatar
aks47u
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:17 am

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby aks47u » Sat May 27, 2017 4:25 pm

Kim! I'm with you on your reasons for a NO to this idea. But I think the spirit of this idea, like many similar before it, is to reward you for your long-term grinding. How do we make this reward idea work?

VeNoM0619
"Great" Mastery Member
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:07 am

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby VeNoM0619 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:50 pm

This idea has been brought up 3 different times recently, and all have sounded appealing, but were given that same flaw.

My response to that flaw was here: http://forum.shopheroesgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8387&sid=f847290974fb8db36d6da8cc4417f50a&sid=f847290974fb8db36d6da8cc4417f50a#p40967

Basically, category mastery. Crafting mage items give ALL your mage items some boost. To promote those who grind on music etc. a boost, however, not forcing item lockin.

Unfortunately this can still have the same flaw on a smaller scale. Potions/Music etc. were grinded, then they release a new crazy money maker like a sword... now Fighter items want that boost, which causes players to either keep grinding mage and feel "left behind" for not switching, or start over on swords. Neither appealing to plenty of players.



On the thread suggestions/feedback that CC created, someone suggested that item craft counts, ONLY count towards precraft requirements (all of the ideas this guy suggested were amazing):http://forum.shopheroesgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8397&start=30&sid=f847290974fb8db36d6da8cc4417f50a&sid=f847290974fb8db36d6da8cc4417f50a#p41024
[*]Remove all good/great bonuses from equipment and make it based on number crafted. In the end, this makes upgraded crafting slots worth purchasing for mid/end gamers.
  • Example: Knife is minimum Great quality when mastered, change this to Common.
  • Set all items to:
    • Craft 2500 - minimum quality is Good
    • Craft 5000 - minimum quality is Great
    • Craft 10000 - minimum quality is Flawless
    • Cap it at Flawless
      • Wisdom Ocarinas need 2 Great Nordic Lutes. Once 5000 Nordic Lutes have been crafted, Wisdom Ocarinas can now be crafted in upgraded crafting slots without the need to physically make the precraft.

This promotes bonuses for crafting more than "mastered" requirements, and benefits the player without causing complete item lockin (since you were making them by hand as a precraft anyways), and doesn't give crazy profit boosts to vet players who only grind Ocarinas.

And finally, if there is some sort of "favorite" item capability we want to reward players for... then to avoid this flaw completely, there needs to be a capability to switch items without starting over. If that means "total items crafted" -> "choose the 1 item you want a boost" that can be switched daily, then maybe that's the route to go.

We all want to keep making progress... but unfortunately progress is non-transferable.

Clusterone
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:00 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby Clusterone » Sat May 27, 2017 9:12 pm

I'm enjoying the responses, I love seeing the other side. :) Either way, I think making certain amounts of items should grant either a bonus somehow. After reading the responses I think a line wide bonus is better. Rather than single item. What about something on the terms of this: mastering everything in a line gives all items extra mastery? All common rarity items mastered +25-50, all chest bp's mastered +100 mastery. Don't let exclusives get that bonus (Nor do they count toward the bonus) so it gives people a reason to master all bp's. So a total of 125-150 to each line if mastering everything?

How does that sound? (Not making the choices, just curious what people think on that idea.)

Feone
"Flawless" Mastery Member
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:33 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby Feone » Sun May 28, 2017 12:05 am

Clusterone wrote:I'm enjoying the responses, I love seeing the other side. :) Either way, I think making certain amounts of items should grant either a bonus somehow. After reading the responses I think a line wide bonus is better. Rather than single item. What about something on the terms of this: mastering everything in a line gives all items extra mastery? All common rarity items mastered +25-50, all chest bp's mastered +100 mastery. Don't let exclusives get that bonus (Nor do they count toward the bonus) so it gives people a reason to master all bp's. So a total of 125-150 to each line if mastering everything?

How does that sound? (Not making the choices, just curious what people think on that idea.)


That sounds like a useful yet not broken or essential bonus that I'd consider worthwhile.

I'd amend that a bit though, how about giving the shopkeeper a worker-like interface, with the option to spend points on anything. This being the way he earns those points.

That way people who go for full crafting speed who don't want mastery don't get screwed for mastering stuff and we can visibly see the full bonus we're getting.

paljar
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 2:01 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby paljar » Sun May 28, 2017 1:03 am

I actually had in mind the idea of promoting crafting items that seem useless to craft. for example:
Each mastered blueprint adds 1 mastery to that blueprint category. It does stimulate any player to master every item and it stimulates whales to buy any available blueprint if only it was to increase their mastery for other blueprints.

Clusterone
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:00 pm

Re: Extra Mastery!

Postby Clusterone » Sun May 28, 2017 2:50 pm

Feone wrote:
Clusterone wrote:I'm enjoying the responses, I love seeing the other side. :) Either way, I think making certain amounts of items should grant either a bonus somehow. After reading the responses I think a line wide bonus is better. Rather than single item. What about something on the terms of this: mastering everything in a line gives all items extra mastery? All common rarity items mastered +25-50, all chest bp's mastered +100 mastery. Don't let exclusives get that bonus (Nor do they count toward the bonus) so it gives people a reason to master all bp's. So a total of 125-150 to each line if mastering everything?

How does that sound? (Not making the choices, just curious what people think on that idea.)


That sounds like a useful yet not broken or essential bonus that I'd consider worthwhile.

I'd amend that a bit though, how about giving the shopkeeper a worker-like interface, with the option to spend points on anything. This being the way he earns those points.

That way people who go for full crafting speed who don't want mastery don't get screwed for mastering stuff and we can visibly see the full bonus we're getting.


Woah I like that idea a lot more. Kind of like Diablo 3's Paragon points system?


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